The facts about Hamas

01/14/2009

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Original text copyright by the author and MidEastWeb for Coexistence, RA. Posted at MidEastWeb Middle East Web Log at http://www.mideastweb.org/log/archives/00000743.htm where your intelligent and constructive comments are welcome. Distributed by MEW Newslist. Subscribe by e-mail to mew-subscribe@yahoogroups.com. Please forward by email with this notice and link to and cite this article. Other uses by permission.

by Moderator @ 12:55 PM CST [Link]

Replies: 26 comments

Yes, there are saying of Prophet Muhammad thattalk about end times and one part of that is mentioned in the quote above. Judaism, Christianity and Islam all talk about the final war with thier own version. Does that mean they all are planning to carry that out?

Since Palestianians are a direct party involved and bearing the results of it, they use that quote more often than other Muslims or as a reminder that SUCH AND SUCH is bound to come.

The problem is: If authentic sayings of Muhammad have it, then it is bound to happened even though you and I may try to stay out and resolve it. I am feeling that this will just linger on because those who are directly involved and the stake holders or political game players will NOT let it come to an end.

Posted by irfan @ 01/14/2009 08:55 PM CST

Ami:
I do not wish those Hamas policies to succeed.

This is why I say the USA and the world *should* support Hamas. That support would be the equivalent of a kiss of death for Hamas. With Western support for Hamas, the electoral support from core constituencies in Gaza would be undermined.

I think Hamas is favored over Fatah by voters in Gaza primarily because people perceive Fatah as a Western puppet. Lets level the political playing field by supporting both groups. Then perhaps the wisdom of peace can prevail over the dogma of war.

Cheers.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 01/14/2009 10:49 PM CST

Dear Sir,

What action/steps should be taken to create a Palestinian State so that the Palestinians can live in peace.

Thank you.

Posted by azhari @ 01/15/2009 06:49 PM CST

Here's a novel idea:

Israel could divert every last nickel it currently receives from pro-Israel charities and lobby groups -away from funding settlements (often indirectly by fiscal offset) -and towards funding and creating a Palestinian state with provisional borders on the Green Line. What a great example of goodwill that would set.

Thus far, Israel has used it's money to do the opposite. -Mainly to prevent or delay the creation of a Palestinian state. It is time to consider the refugees for once. There is an old saying that a person with something nice in his right hand might forget that which he holds in his left hand.

Let's give the refugees something besides anger to hold on to. Something that confers dignity, pride, a sense of power, and regional respect. Perhaps something that looks like a good future for their children to inherit.

Lets help find and support those leaders who might finally take this dream and make it real and tangible. Something to hold in empty Palestinian hands. Leaders who can engender respect and a wide following without espousing violence and intolerance.

Let's do that, -instead of systematically assassinating and undermining leaders that Israel considers undesirable. Those whom Israel kills become Martyrs. And folks, over all this time, killing leaders has NEVER produced the desired result.

Hamas and other radical groups keep attacking, and Israel keeps on killing. Between these two sides, one must finally demonstrate the ability to learn from past mistakes.

Which side will it be?

Cheers.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 01/16/2009 07:54 AM CST

Another example:

If Israel wants Palestinians to see radicals who perpetrate violent attacks as criminals, Israel MUST STOP targeting them as enemy fighters in an ongoing war. Such treatment only elevates their status to heroes of war.

Instead, build a provisional Palestinian state, then interact with the new state to pursue those individuals as criminals. Over time, most radicals will have to choose either to continue behaving as criminals (and eventually be caught), or assume a different tactic that foregoes violence. This typically manifests itself as political assimilation in the new state, and results in a reduction of violence.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 01/16/2009 08:27 AM CST

An observation:
It's tragic that the democratic process has allowed a fanatical group to gain power and delay or undermine the peace process by implementing an agenda that violates international law, stipulations of the Roadmap, and previous peace agreements.

Hamas has done this in Gaza. On the other hand, ultra-nationalist political groups like NRP -National Religious Party, Shas, and Likud have done the same things in Israel.

Politically speaking, both sides are criminally corrupted.

It bothers me to hear Israel insist that Hamas has violated international law, the Geneva Convention, and prior peace accords -when Israel has done exactly the same thing.

It's time to put a stop to all of this foolishness and bickering.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 01/17/2009 06:59 AM CST

Israel shoul leave illegal occupation at once otherwise their end would be very evry bad.

Posted by someone @ 01/18/2009 03:52 AM CST

In a January 12, 2009 BBC interview, Sir Jeremy Greenstock - who has been in direct contact with Hamas - says that the document so often quoted from as "the Hamas Charter" in fact was drafted many years ago and has never been adopted by Hamas and is in no way authoritative or foundational:

http://news.bbc.co.uk/today/hi/today/newsid_7823000/7823746.stm

The view stated in the "Charter" is offered as proof by Israel, of course, that negotiations with Hamas would be futile and are therefore do not deserve consideration.

Posted by yohnan @ 01/18/2009 03:38 PM CST

Justice by its nature will prevail. Under Islam all people of the world must be safe from injustice even if it be against oneself.There is only one God. It is to him that we submit. Palestinians are inhabitants of Palestine which was cut up into Israel and Palestine. I think that these two people who are semites by the way should remove their boarders and live together as one country with fairness and justice. The combination of the Jewish wisdom and the Palistinian bravery will make them the envy of the world. Remember that we have to answer to God for all our actions . Every soul shall taste death , be it on the battle field or our death bed, but answer to God we will.People , Fear God. Denying the truth is the greatest injustice, especially to one's self.

Posted by BeitShalom @ 01/18/2009 09:44 PM CST

I am a Retired USA Army Officer. I was taught it is impossible to extract Good from evil, also it is impossible to extract evil from Good. Good is the true Feeling of God's Love in Humans. Evil is the displacement of hatred, and the total disrespect for Human Life. Human Life being the most sacred of all God's Love as displayed on Earth.

Posted by George Arp @ 01/19/2009 01:58 PM CST

Seems strange that the author uses old words and rejects the latest ceasefire agreement that Hamas held for over 20 weeks before (on USA election day) the Israelis killed those inside of Gaza.
Things change there...
It has to, in order to find peace, and to give in to "bad emails" to forget the recent offering of peace is, well, not journalism.
president Carter is so old news.

Either the territories are sovereign or should be a voting block in Israel.
With sovereigncy comes rights, and a relationship where both must cooperate.
Seems Israel wants it both ways!

One sided truces and control over policy is not offering independence. And not allowing those you control a vote is not democracy.

Posted by truth seeker @ 01/20/2009 06:18 AM CST

You disgusting, sick, sad people. Hamas, and other militant groups like it are evil. End of story, go home, kill your parents, rape your neighbour, and light a cat on fire, after all that, kill yourself. At least you know you'll be going to a better place then those who would kill their own people for dancing at a wedding, those who would kill their own people for expressing an opinion, and those who would not waver in any capacity in their mission to destroy Jews, and as it seems from their charter and hamas or palestinian-led news reports, their mission to rule the world.
Yes, judgement day will come, and although christians have had their share of holy killings and evil deeds, we're out of the dark ages. We live in brick and mortar homes now, we drive things called cars and talk on things called phones, the days of holy wars or jihads are done with, and those who insist on keeping it alive, will suffer only the greatest pain in the deepest pit of hell.
allah u akbar.

Posted by Frank @ 01/21/2009 07:45 AM CST

Hey Frank:

(Quote)
"...Those who would kill their own people for dancing at a wedding, those who would kill their own people for expressing an opinion..."

Those? Those people? -Who do you mean?

Do you mean politicians who would authorize breaking the bones of protestors in an iron fist policy of oppression?

Sound familiar?

Or do you mean those fanatics who would kill their own Prime Minister (a recipient of the Nobel Peace Prize) for recognizing the PLO, shaking Yasser Arafat's hand, and offering up terms for a peace agreement that they found unacceptable?

-Or do you mean those fanatical settlers who celebrate the date of Rabin's assassination?

Those people are Jewish!

Let us not pretend that only one side has done evil things.

Rest in Peace, Yitzhak Rabin.

Cheers.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 01/21/2009 10:28 AM CST

to all my fellow inmates of this EARTH,LET US WAKE UP AND SMELL THE FRESH SWEETNESS OF THE EARTH AND THE GRASS AND REALISE THAT WE DO NOT OWN THIS EARTH OR ANYTHING ELSE HERE.Man should take lessons and note that WE have a temproray time on earth to ensure that our stay here is peaceful and we will promote every action which will lead us to PARADISE IN THE HEREAFTER.Muslims are for peace and the Prophet(saw)only wanted the best for all people ,MUSLIMS AND NON-MUSLIMS , so lets join hands and STOP THE SHAME BY ALL KILLERS AND LOOTERS as this worls has seen too much violence from supposedly CIVILISED PEOPLE and STOP Blaming HAMAS COS THEY HAVE BEEN BORN DUE TO THE ORIGINAL ACTIONS BY TEH PEOPLE WHO INITIATED THE CREATION OF ISRAEL also we dont condone anybody who incites hatred and violence but we should insist THAT THE ISRAELIS GIVE BACK THE LAND TO THE PEOPLE OF PALESTINE AND THEY ALSO ARRANGE TO STAY IN PALESTINE IF THEY SO WISH AS I FIRMLY BELEIVE THAT THE SOUTH AFRICAN TYPE COALITION GOVERNMENT IS THE WAY TO GO.SO CMON LETS SHAKE HANDS AND MAKE A PLAN FOR PEACE

Posted by jasmine @ 01/30/2009 03:26 PM CST

There is a plan for peace.
It is called The Roadmap.

Cheers.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 01/31/2009 10:23 AM CST

HEY GUYS DONT YOU EVER WONDER THAT WHATEVER TRYING HARD TO DESTROY ISRAEL BY ITS ENEMY, STILL ISRAEL STANDS.......DONT YOU EVER OBSERVED THAT GOD REALLY FAVORS ISRAEL.....ITS NOT SCHOCKING THING TO SEE THAT ISRAEL ALWAYS FACE CONFLICT WITH HER NEIGBORING COUNTRIES BUT THE FACT IS THEY WILL ALWAYS WIN THE WAR AT THE END.....THE GOD OF ISRAEL IS TRUE AND ALIVE..........THEY ARE SMALL BUT POWERFUL.........ALLAH DOES NOT COME TO EXISTENCE...............

Posted by Richard @ 01/31/2009 01:12 PM CST

I am neither jew or muslim but I have been studying historical facts about this land called palistine and would like to share a few facts with anyone who is interested.(1) according to archeological and historical documents the jewish people have been in the area called palistine since between 1800-1500 BC.(2)The word palistine does not appear until around 135 AD when the romans renamed it palistinia.(3)I have studied many historical documents on the subject and find that it has been occupied by the turks, egyptians, romans, and many others over the centuries but no historical documents as far back as 1800 BC that indicates that the palistinians ever had any right to this land. I do not mean to offend anyone but just want to share a few historical facts but please dont take my word on this but study it for yourself. I do believe that this world will only be as good or bad as we the people who live here make it .love and peace is always better than hate and discontent. Thanks, Dennis

Posted by Dennis @ 02/01/2009 04:18 AM CST

Dennis:

"...but no historical documents as far back as 1800 BC that indicates that the Palistinians ever had any right to this land."

I see a consistent trend of Israeli supporters -attempting to co-opt everything they can lay their hands on -in an effort to justify the occupation and the Settlements. In this case, you INFER that Jews have a historic right to the land and non-Jews do not.

NEITHER side has any God-given or historic right to the land. Please put that argument to rest.

The Settlements in the West Bank are illegal under international law. Israel cannot expect to enjoy the status of full international recognition as a lawful nation while it continues to violate international law. The Settlements beyond the Green Line cannot be made legal.

It may be possible that Israel could barter or trade with the new provisional state of Palestine to adjust parts of the border and share water resources. However, Israel's unilateral adjustments of it's border, -by way of illegal Settlements, annexations, manipulation of building and travel permits, and the uphemistically named "Security Wall" will *never* be recognized by world authorities. Even the USA recognizes Tel Aviv as the capital of Israel.

Israel may eventually obtain some border adjustments, but first it must return to the Green Line to have a legal basis for proceeding. The most preferable adjustments for the UN would be those which would straighten the border by eliminating niches and cavities created where Israel has appropriated desirable land.

Cheers.

Posted by Kiev500 @ 02/01/2009 12:59 PM CST

hello my name is taylor, and i like jewish people. They are cool and Arabs should stop being mean to them STOP FIGHTING!! make love not war :)

Posted by taylor @ 02/05/2009 07:58 PM CST

For a non racist and dramatic interpretation of the Israeli/Palestinain conflict see details of my monologue Bitter Fruit of Palestine on my web site

I will perform the piece for free anywhere in Britain

www.richardmorrisplaywright.co.uk

Posted by Richard Morris @ 02/07/2009 02:17 PM CST

well ive been reading the comments, and all I gotta say is with the amount of back history that both sides have in this conflict, it don't look like its gonner end soon. Ofcourse I have to wounder that if the *people* of both these nations wanted peace then why don't they just stop doing what there *leaders* tell them to, and stop shooting at each other?

Posted by losmuertos @ 02/13/2009 12:12 AM CST

Why do you say that we should support the Hamas group. Why would we want to support a mass genocide. This seems insane. This group needs to be stopped. I am not muslim, nor Jewish. Still, I don't see how this helps the world. All this fighting and killings needs to stop. In the Christian Bible, it says that these wars have and will go on for thousands of years. Why would we want more war if we are already going to have to live through it all our lives....

Jagermeister

Posted by Jagerbomb @ 02/13/2009 01:09 AM CST

It is through Israeli propaganda that Hamas gained the name 'terrorists' because Israel wants the western media to think exactly this, and that Israel is forced to defend itself against Hamas rockets. RUBBISH!!!
Zionist Israel (are the real terrorists) they have caused Hamas to fire their rockets, in resistance/protest against the Zionists stealing and illegally occupying their land, making them prisoners and refugees in their own land. Who would not resist anyone in any possible way they can against the suffering, suppression and oppression inflicted on a people by a terrorising state which claims to be democratic.
The coming Neyanyahu and Lieberman are hell-bent on further expansions of the Jewish settlement, are against removing any blockades or borders, which leaves no room for peace or truce, as these are the specific conditions on Hamas' agenda for peace.
Hamas were selected by the Palestinians as the PLO are tightly in Israel's pocket. Unless the US, UN and all concerned include Hamas in their peace talks, there will be no progress as Hamas have to be recognised as the Palestinians choice...

Posted by Meg, UK @ 02/19/2009 11:59 PM CST

Well written Meg. You've analised the situation correctly. Unfortunately the majority of people in the west are fooled by an ambiguous and pro-Israeli media coverage of the conflict in the mainstream media.

Posted by joanelculer @ 02/27/2009 11:41 AM CST

I find the positions of the Hamas apologists quite interesting. If an organization purposefully targets civilians for political objectives, they are a terrorist organization. That is the definition. Feel free to contact the people over at the UN if you have a problem with this. (See bottom of post re UN)
While the actions of Israel may be judged abhorrent, they do not involve deliberately targeting civilians, and therefore do not constitute terrorism. There exists concrete evidence (including interviews with Gazan residents, transcripts of intercepted Hamas communications released by Israel, direct comments made by the Hamas organization itself) that Hamas acts to deliberately place civilians (i.e. people not launching rockets, such as women and children) in harms way, as to dissuade counter responses from Israel.
Remember, even if you think they are pigs, Israel is run by people who realize that their political objectives become more difficult with every civilian Gazan they kill. Even if you judge it to be insufficient, the international backlash after Operation Cast Lead has significantly harmed Israel's prospects for the future. Further, Hamas members are religiously fundamentalist, and therefore generally believe that every "human shield" that dies protecting its combatants is destined to an eternity in paradise.
Finally, I feel it is necessary to address the claim that Israel, and not Hamas, broke the cease-fire. It is true that Israel dropped the first bombs following the cease fire. However, the people targeted where a group of Hamas militants in the middle of attempting to breach the fence separating Gaza and Israel. In the past this had been a prelude to both terror attacks and kidnappings such as that of the soldier Gilad Shalit. Not to be trite, but if a man sworn to kill you reaches for a knife and starts to swing, are you wrong to shoot him first?
Its been stated that the continued blockade on Gaza was in fact a violation of the cease fire, and so the previous incident is not relevant. The blockade, while in and of itself an act of war, cannot be said to have violated the cease fire. According to its terms, the end of the blockade was to be linked to a cession of rocket fire from Gaza into Israel. Israel intermittently loosened and tightened its blockade in proportion to the degree of incoming rocket fire, and Hamas did the same on its end (hence the term "cycle of violence"). In this respect, both factions, or perhaps neither, can be accused of violating the cease fire.
Following the aforementioned incident incident, a period of tit-for-tat violent exchanges occurred. When the ceasefire expired, the Israeli government announced its interest to renew the agreement. Hamas announced that it did not intend to extend the ceasefire, and raised several-fold the level of rocket attacks in what it called "Operation Oil Stain". This is the event that most quote, and I believe stands, as Hamas "breaking the cease fire".

Re UN
I'm no fan of name dropping, especially of the UN.
As people love to forget, the UN is a political body, and therefore behaves as and has interests common to any political body... seeing as there are a billion Muslims, several dozen avowed Muslim countries, while on the other "side", 15 million Jews, one Jewish country, and one (granted extremely powerful, but singular and in decline) supporter of that Jewish country... I hope the numbers illustrate how the opinions and activities of the UN might be influenced. In case they alone do not, I should clarify: in light of the fact that the UN, is a political body, it, like any political body, seeks on some level to perpetuate its own power. As it draws this power from its consituant nations, the UN would be inclined to act to cultivate amicability and support from as many of those nations as possible (this is where the numbers come in), i.e. support the Arab "side" view in a disagreement with the Israeli "side".

That being said, here is the reference:
"acts intended to cause death or serious bodily harm to civilians or non-combatants with the purpose of intimidating a population or compelling a government or an international organization to do or abstain from doing any act"
SEE http://www.un.org/largerfreedom/chap3.htm.

Posted by AdamA @ 03/19/2009 02:56 AM CST

Meg, you need to get your facts straight. You'll find that terrorist attacks against Israel took place before its founding in the form of Arab riots over a period of decades، and have never stopped. There were plenty of terrorist attacks coming out of both Gaza and the West Bank from 1948-1967 when Israel began to "occupy" them.

Most famously, check out Nonie Darwish, whose father was in charge of these guerilla terrorist attacks in the Egyptian occupied Gaza Strip, before he was killed by Israeli counter-terrorism operatives.

Posted by Edward L. Goldfarb @ 03/28/2009 07:56 PM CST

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